Taiko TAP0016 Audio Extreme Router User Manual
Battling Networking Noise
(Simplified explanation)
We are taking a 180-degree angle approach to networking noise relative to the more common
methods that are currently used.
Think of the following analogy:
1) Being stuck in a silent room with a leaking water tap into a bucket of water.
2) Those same drops of water falling into an ocean with you on the beach enjoying the sound of
waves.
Our approach is to not drown out irregular noise by hiding it in a wideband high noise floor but
rather to make the offending noise itself inaudible allowing you to relax in that silent room and
enjoy the sound of silence.
In a normal home setup with an X number of devices, smart TVs, streaming devices, desktop
computers, notebooks, smartphones, tablets, smart lighting, smart household appliances, etc.,
adding more devices with a relatively small increase in total network activity is not very noticeable.
However, when you create a new network for audio, using a dedicated router, with a bare minimum
of devices, with overall very low activity, and the activity is controlled on the router and connected
devices, any additional device creating additional and uncontrolled network activity suddenly does
become noticeable.
Q&A – Legacy Version
Topics in Blue are also included in the interactive Richpanel FAQ Section on Taikoaudio.com
Can we keep the existing house router/wifi access point?
Yes, you can indeed keep the existing house router/wifi access point and use the Taiko router in
series and create an audio-exclusive connection to the hifi system for best sound.
So, you can just use your house wifi?
Indeed.
Should the Taiko Switch and Router be used in series? Or just one vs the other?
They should indeed be used in series, the Router feeding the Switch.
Is the Router made from a solid copper billet?
Indeed, it is. We are slowly but surely moving towards 100% in-house manufacturing to remove
external supplier dependencies as those have become increasingly “troublesome”. We don’t want
our own anodizing facility either, hence the choice to move away from Aluminum as a base material.
Copper is a material that we can finish ourselves (over time), we have years of experience working
with it by now, and as a bonus, the material has an arguably “higher-end” look and feel.
Do these cases provide full Faraday shield insulation?
They come as close as you can get for an electronic appliance.
I have the service provider fiber going into the Fiber modem, then a RJ45 cable to the
router/switch. Does the new router accept the service provider fiber directly? Or will I still need a
fiber modem before the Taiko router?
The Taiko Router could accept the service provider fiber directly. Subsequently, you could create a
separated audio and rest-of-home network. Alternatively, it could also be placed behind the fiber
modem. However, we recommend using copper.
Will the Taiko router replace an Edge Router in an AT&T setup?
Initially, the Taiko Router will be an addition.
Does the router have to be near the Switch?
While the Switch should be located relatively close to the Extreme (ideally no more than 7 meters),
the Router can be placed anywhere.
Should we power the Switch or the Router from the upcoming BPS?
It would be much more beneficial to power the switch from the BPS than the router. We’re assuming
the switch is placed close to the Extreme and the router at a distance, likely where your internet
enters your home. But this is not the only possible scenario.
Does the Taiko router also work as a modem?
For now, it does not. But it has the potential to possible be deployed that way at a later stage.
Depending on your definition of modem, yes, but your service provider needs to permit and support
using your own router.
Does the Taiko router also work without wifi?
We will prep the Router for Port Forwarding to allow using tablets via your regular Access Point but
that does perform less well than the built-in wifi.
Can we use the router instead of the switch? Does the router do everything the switch does, and
more?
No, they serve different purposes. In essence, a switch is used to connect devices to each other
within a network while a router allows networks to communicate with each other.
Are you going to do some testing with the major ISPs in each region to see which work with your
router? (in case one wants to replace the existing AP with the Taiko Router)
Unfortunately, this is not realistically executable. Also, this is premature and for potential future
purpose. Our current configuration is to use the Taiko Router in series, after the main router/wifi
access point.
Since my ISP's Router also works for TV services, I need to place the Taiko Router after my ISP's
Router. In this case, would we make a LAN-to-LAN connection with the Taiko Router's DHCP
services disabled, or a LAN-to-WAN connection creating a second network for audio only?
Creating a second network for audio only would give you the maximum uplift in Sound Quality. This
yields much quieter backgrounds, undisturbed by network traffic generated by other persons in the
household.
Why not combine Switch and Router in a single chassis?
Unfortunately, there is an advantage to having separate boxes. The thing is EMI/RFI is airborne
inside the chassis and can couple back into the circuit, of course, you could create 2 internal
chambers, but this would both be about the same size/weight and actually a bit more expensive,
especially for post-treatment/finishing and a higher chance of transport damage. If you want just
one box, we recommend picking the switch.
Although we can have separate networks assigned within the Taiko router, will it still be better to
have a separate ISP Fiber and modem to fully isolate traffic?
This can actually turn out negative. To obtain a degree of separation, you could place the modem,
router, and switches on a separate mains system. But if you're splitting a single phase with a
common neutral it's not going to matter that much.
Use RJ45 or Fiber with the Taiko router?
RJ45 is preferred but both work well.
What are the rated speeds of the Router’s RJ45 ports?
1Gbps (but the RJ45 ports also work with 100Mb connections)
What is the rated speed of the Router’s SFP ports?
1Gb (and it is incompatible with 100Mb connections)
Why do the SFP ports only work with 1Gb?
SFP modules and -ports are designed for a single speed and they do not exist in a dual-speed
configuration. The SFP modules and ports that we use in our Taiko Audio products are specified to
work only at 1Gb.
As a result, the following Taiko Audio products will not work with 100mb connections, only with 1Gb
connections:
•
•
Extreme Switch
Extreme Network Card
Conversely, RJ45 ports can work in 100Mb and 1Gb mode. As a result, the Taiko Audio Extreme
Router will be partially compatible with 100Mb and 1Gb connections:
•
•
Extreme Router RJ45 ports: 100Mb and 1Gb
Extreme Router SFP/DAC port: 1Gb only
What this means is that any network interfaces upstream of the Taiko Audio Extreme Switch or
Network Card, such as generic routers or switches, must be 1 Gb. For the Taiko Audio Extreme
Router, the same holds true when it concerns devices connected to its SFP/DAC port.
Please note that some Ethernet cables are restricted to 100Mbit (as opposed to Gigabit) which will
also be incompatible.
Will the Router work with a MESH satellite router such as the Asus zenwifi? Will it meet the 1GB
requirement?
The Extreme Router accepts either 100Mb or 1Gb on its RJ45 ports, so as long as the Extreme Router
is used upstream of the Switch and NIC, the setup will work.
Is there a possibility to add second SFP port in router?
No, that is not necessary. The benefit OF SFP is a reduction of the switch power consumption by
switching out a RJ45 port for SFP DAC which is the dominant form of noise generation in this switch
design. What happens before is much less relevant in this area. The Router is designed to work
optimally as it is with the partial isolation a rj45 input provides from a “noisier” upstream
environment being beneficial in this case.
Will the Taiko Router support creating a V-LAN upon installation?
Yes, this is indeed supported.
Within a voltage range, what is the best voltage?
The largest variation in that would be caused by a linear Power Supply. For a LPS, a higher voltage
might be better as most are noisier at higher currents (and lower voltages).
What is the ideal input voltage for the Extreme Router?
The Router can take 12-19V, just like the Switch. In an earlier design, it was 7-12V, but the router
was recently updated with our latest-generation Gallium Nitrate FET rectifiers while undergoing
revision for the Wi-Fi functionality.
12V is ideal for the router, but it really doesn’t matter much for the router/switch as the conversion
efficiency is over 95%. It will consume about the same power if you run it at 12 or 15V. Your power
supply will have to supply less current at a higher voltage which can be a benefit or not, but that all
depends on the power supply design.
When assessing the ideal voltage, the big variable is the LPS. The Switch and Router are very efficient
power conversion (~99%). That means if the power consumption would be 12 watts (just as an easy
example), the current draw would be 1A as voltage*current=power. If you use a 7V supply, the
current will go up to 1.7A (12W divided by 7V = 1.7A). Typically, higher current = higher noise in a
linear regulator, but there's more to it than that. An LPS is not a very power-efficient supply. As a
commercial manufacturer, you would not typically use a different transformer for each different
output voltage. Perhaps you'd use a 15V AC secondary transformer which supplies about 21V DC
after rectification (+/- 10% to account for wall voltage variations) for 15V and 12V out after
regulation, in an LPS, the excess voltage is discarded, transformed into heat, increasing the current
draw from your power grid, and the current spikes for recharging the capacitor bank which is also a
type of noise, the more inefficient it is (the more power is transformed to heat) the worse this gets.
So, it depends on the LPS design which voltage will perform best. As 12V is a very common voltage,
you could assume those to be relatively efficient designs, but in the above example with a 15V AC
transformer secondary the 15V LPS could perform "better". Now if a manufacturer uses the same
transformer for a 5V, 7V, and 9V supply, the 9V would be most efficient. Therefore, it's impossible to
give you an exact recommendation without knowing the design specifics of the LPS as the Switch
and Router really don't care much which voltage is supplied as long as it's in range.
The switch and router will actually still function down to about 8V, but performance will be
compromised then as that will render the first regulation stage inoperable. The first regulator stage
"needs" 11.5V minimum to function optimally. Higher voltages don't affect things significantly; it will
be slightly less efficient, but we're talking about 0.5 watts of power "wasted" when you power them
at 19V for the router and switch combined. Hence, this will be dominated by how efficient and or
noisy your power supply is at what supply voltage.RJ45 or DAC?
We prefer DAC for ultimate neutrality, transparency, and imaging precision. RJ45 is a close second
above Glass. Some people prefer a degree of “smoothing” which makes a case for using RJ45 that
can sound more pleasurable and reduce harder edges caused elsewhere in the system compared to
DAC.
Is the customized QoS rule of the router important?
Yes, virtually all settings matter. We advise against enabling QoS.
I will replace my current switch (before the Extreme) with the Taiko switch. Should I also remove
the subnet (Edge Router x) before that?
Yes, the Taiko router should be able to do everything the Edge Router x does. However, there are
some ISP devices that will prohibit direct one-on-one replacement. In that case, you can add the
Taiko Router after the ISP Router.
Will the router and switch also be made available for non-Extreme users?
Yes
With the Extreme Router in place, is there still a benefit to isolating the audio Wi-Fi AP with fiber
optic?
Not in the cases that we have tried it.
Copper or Fiber Networks? I have two separate internet services in my home, one is fiber, going to
the Audio Network, and one is copper, going the home network, so they are completely isolated.
In this case, which option should be better:
a) Program (if possible) the Taiko router in order to use it directly with the fiber input
b) Keep the current fiber modem and router, and place the Taiko router in series
In this case, it doesn’t matter much. Although we do significantly prefer rj45 into the router though
so we would probably end up recommending b) for that reason.
Will it be possible add two sets of rules to the Router?
The first set of rules : complete isolation. The second set of rules : allows access to the HiFi
network from the Home network. The goal being to backup the music files and the Roon library
from the Extreme to a NAS located in the home network and to access the Extreme's Roon server
from a machine on the home network to allow managing Roon settings and library from a desktop
machine.
We can add VNC and filesharing port forwarding rules, but keep in mind less is more for SQ. We are
contemplating implementing VNC and file share access port forwarding, preconfigured by default.
The Extreme could be assigned a permanent IP address, always the same, on all routers. That adds
the benefit of decreasing support load for us. Your VNC / file share access IP address from your
home network would then become the IP address assigned to the Taiko router by your home
network router.
Will playing local files from a NAS connected to the Extreme Router compromise sound quality?
Yes, a better solution would be to connect a USB drive to one of the Router’s two USB A ports which
can then serve as a NAS.
Can the Taiko Router server as a NAS?
It has built-in NAS functionality by means of an external USB drive. Generally, it is best to use fewer
power supplies, so bus-powered would potentially be ideal, although we have not run extensive
comparisons yet. The best solution would theoretically be powering it from the DC distributor but
that would typically run at 12V and most external USB drives run at 5V.
Currently, I have dedicated for audio ISP service (fiber) with modem and Router. Home is on
totally separate Service with its own modem and router. Could I use just one ISP service, one
modem and one router when using Taiko router and the SQ will be same as on totally separated
chains?
The Sound Quality should be roughly the same indeed.
Do additional devices on the network affect the sound quality?
I use a separate computer (MacBook Pro) to copy CDs to the Extreme SSD and then copy to an NAS
for backup. I do not use the NAS for playback. Is SQ still affected by having the MacBook Pro and
NAS connected to the Taiko router?
Yes, for instance, a Laptop, or a NAS will affect the SQ as they will then increase network activity on
the “audio” network. Every powered-on device connected to a network creates network activity.
Most mobile devices, like iPhones, iPads or Android devices even create network activity in “standby
/ screen switched off” mode. If you power off your MacBook Pro during music playback it should not
generate network activity, but your NAS will for sure.
At what minimum distance should the wifi Access Point be placed?
We don’t think the “airborne” part of Wi-Fi impacts anything. It’s more the power side of it which
can cause some “discomfort”. So, the placement is arbitrary.
Is wifi noise a potential issue?
There is most definitely a very significant impact of “wifi pollution”. But the consensus here currently
is that the negative effect is likely not caused by a router’s 2.4/5/6Ghz radio function. In our
experiments, anything below 2-3MHz affects sound by not yet fully understood mechanisms. Above
that, it does nothing audible. A wifi access point does use a variety of high efficiency switchers
emitting pollution in this range, 500-700KHz is a very common range for example.
Will the router provide WAP?
The router will not provide WAP
How would you compare the impact of adding the router (along with isolating the Extreme on its
own network) on top of the switch to the effect we experienced with just adding the switch and
network card?
Although they impact sound quality in different ways, we feel the distribution is as follows.
Setting 100% improvement as a baseline (actual improvement subject to your perception), Network
card and Switch combined 60%, Router 40%, drilling down further, Network card 20%, Switch 40%,
Router 40%.
This however does not include the new Extreme DC power distributor, which allows you to power
both Switch and Router from one single power supply with significant improved performance over
using 2 power supplies with the additional option to tailor the sound to your personal preference.
It was mentioned previously that ports would be forwarded eg. for VNC to copy files. Will there
also be port forwarding for XDMS, so I can control my music from my Macbook while still being
connected to the main (non-audio) router, which I need for accessing the internet?
With our recent breakthrough in finding a solution to add wifi to the router without sonic sacrifices
(rather the inverse), port forwarding is no longer needed, as the control point/tablet simply connects
to the Extreme server directly. However, we will prep the Router for Port Forwarding so that you can
still use the Extreme as you're used to, using your home wifi, using Roon, XDMS, VNC, Teamviewer
and file sharing.
Would network noise be more prevalent in congested areas such as apartment complexes, cities,
and developed areas?
Or is network noise inherent no matter what?
We don’t think the “airborne” part of Wi-Fi impacts much if anything. We believe we've all been
conditioned into believing in something that does in fact not exist. There's no such thing as "internet
noise" traveling through your home router. There's noise caused BY activity due to the need to
process more network packets, more processing means more noise in the device performing the
processing. Naturally, there's download speed, where it takes a longer or shorter time to receive the
requested data, which translates into longer lower-intensity processing, or shorter higher-intensity
processing, creating a different noise spectrum.
How do the Router and Switch reduce Noise?
Adding the switch reduces processing in the Extreme, adding the router reduces processing in both
the switch and the extreme.
Is the supplied wall-wart power supply good enough for the Extreme Router?
It is only good enough to get you started. We strongly recommend using a LPS. One LPS powering
switch and router, when using a DAC cable as the interconnect, “sounds” better than two, and even
more so when using the DC Power distributor.
Will a second Extreme Router obviate the need for a good quality LPS?
Unfortunately, no.
Is port forwarding (on the Taiko Router) the preferred method to enable the iPad to control the
Extreme wirelessly?
Previously yes, but currently no longer. Onboard wifi is now preferred.
Will port forwarding cause lag with XDMS?
Functionally, you won’t notice a difference.
What needs to be configured to make Port Forwarding function?
The Router will be pre-configured for port forwarding. But you may need to change a setting, then
move the ethernet cable from switch to router and insert the DAC cable between router and switch,
and that’s it.
Is the general recommendation to connect the router to the switch via a DAC cable?
For ultimate “neutrality” and in the large majority of use cases, yes, but it works great with RJ45 as
well.
Is there a clear preference between RJ45 or DAC cable to connect the Router to the Switch, when
the they are on their own individually-isolated Shunyata Denali receptacle, and all grounds are
connected to the ALTAIRA, and not using the DC Power Distributor?
In this particular use case, you may prefer RJ45. In that particular setup you may want to avoid
directly connecting the switch and router grounds with a DAC cable, even though it’s the superior
method of connection. If you use 2 power supplies there will be a noise voltage “riding” on the
ground connections between the connected devices. You can then try to reduce that by different
“grounding” schemes to try to get closer to single point grounding, but as these devices are both
externally powered you can simply achieve superior single point grounding by using 1 shared power
supply.
Is there any advantage for the dirty side router to have a VLAN for the Taiko router to connect and
run from?
No, there is not.
Is it advisable to also connect product X to the Taiko Router, in addition to the Extreme?
it is advised not to connect anything else to the Taiko router. Not because the device may not
benefit itself, but because it may (and likely will) cause a degradation in the SQ of the Extreme. If you
leave the extra component connected and on standby, then it depends on what the ATVX generates
on standby and how much it, including its power supply “dumps” onto the network cabling.
With Roon’s broadcast and multicast for discovery, Can Roon on an Extreme Server stream to the
other devices for non-critical listening, on the separate subnet?
Is there any provision to maintain Roon distribution for non-critical listening? With Roon’s
broadcast and multicast for discovery, Can Roon on an Extreme Server stream to the other devices
on the separate subnet?
This could be possible "with a pass-through" but this would need to be tested in several
configurations for SQ. However, the purpose of the Router is to decrease network traffic on an
“audio only” / “isolated” subnet. The more traffic you pass through, the less “useful” it becomes.
Can I use one of the router’s USB ports to connect a USB/Ethernet converter if an additional port is
required?
That will have an impact on sound quality, plus you’ll need to have driver support in the router for
that particular device.
It has been stated that the length of DAC cable from switch to Extreme should not be too long.
Does the same apply for a DAC cable from router to switch?
It’s not the biggest part of the equation. Shorter sounds a bit tighter, longer a bit fuller. We
recommend picking what’s convenient to use.
Would PoE (Power Over Ethernet) provide a cleaner solution?
soundwise and aesthetically?
Unfortunately, no, most likely due to the "buck" boost converters they use. Perhaps if we'd
specifically design a PoE injector or a 54V power supply but we don’t think that’s the best way to go.
Why not include the AP directly inside the router, with an external antenna?
If we can get good performance from that then we most certainly will do that as a dedicated “audio”
AP is absolutely better than routing your home hifi through the router.
Would adding an antenna require making a new version of the router?
No, the Router has 2 m.2 PCIe slots on board. Adding a cutout for an antenna is no problem.
There seems to be a SIM card slot on the left side of the board?
That slot is indeed for a SIM card, good to have options.
A 4G SIM in the Router’s SIM slot could allow for 100% isolation from the home network. Is this an
option?
Today, you could use any “low-powered” LTE/4G router (with modem build in) and connect to the
Extreme router to obtain the same advantage of isolation from the home network. LTE/4G router - -
Extreme router - - switch - - server. This has been tested some time ago but the router already
provides ample isolation from your home network.
Has a decision been made regarding the integration of an AP into the router in order to have an
all-in-one solution?
This is in the works.
Wifi to be added to the Router (updated implementation 25-05-2023)
We have integrated Wi-Fi working on the routers! This does require a PCB change to work well
which we are now considering to do for 2 reasons. The first one being guaranteed SQ performance,
and yes this is the solution which produces superior results, the second reason is reduced complexity
of setup, in fact it can be virtually as easy to install as the switch, and easier than the switch/network
card bundle.
The downside is the increased BOM (Bill Of Materials), and we already forgot to include a few items
in that meaning we will have to increase the Router price, likely to at least EURO 6600 and possibly a
bit more. But of course, we will honor the EURO 6000 presale price and those who placed presale
orders will get the wi-fi update for free.
Does this separate wifi network sound better than if I used port forwarding and stayed connected
to my main network?
Yes, it does.
Can the wi-fi feature in the Router be disabled?
Yes, it can be removed entirely.
Will you also issue a Router without wifi?
No. The Extreme Router will only be issued in its definitive form, which is with wifi access point
included. Alas, we will not make the earlier incarnation available to the public.
Does the Router have subscription or maintenance cost?
We switched to openwrt, which has no maintenance cost.
In case of Extreme server + Merging NADAC with an Extreme Network Card, where should the new
Extreme Router be inserted?
The Router should be "ahead of" the Extreme, like so: Router -> Extreme Server -> Switch -> NADAC.
Will the router Access Point be Cat6 or Cat6e?
As things are looking now, neither. We have the following setup running which adds Wi-Fi over USB
at a very low power consumption.
We could integrate this inside the Router chassis, ideally adding an exclusive power
rail/filter/regulator. This is by far the best solution we’ve tested. We’re currently looking at what
that would entail and if we can make this work for the presale batch since it requires ordering new
PCBs (although we can recycle most of the expensive parts).
It looks like we can ship end of July with new PCBs. Wi-Fi would then be integrated into the Router
chassis and management interface. The SQ impact of this Wi-Fi solution is virtually undetectable.
Will the router Wi-Fi work with Android?
Yes
Will there be a sonic benefit to unplugging the Extreme Router from the Main Router when only
listening local storage music?
If I don’t listen to streaming, I can leave the taiko router unplugged from the main router, right?
Will there be any benefit (sonically) to that?
You could do that, but we feel it’s not worth the hassle.
What makes the Extreme Router Special? Why does it use ARM 16 cores?
CPU performance matters but there’s more to it than just that. Somewhat obvious is you want low
utilization so performance is minimally impacted by WAN side traffic and traffic rules processing like
port forwarding. We use a military-grade security processor. The reason for this is this type of
processor is security hardened to an excessive degree. DATA can be stolen or reconstructed by
measuring fluctuations in processor/data line emissions and power draw. The processor &
subsystem we use has constant emissions and power draw, so no fluctuations. This is the highest
obtainable security standard, which we arguably do not need, but the constant power draw and
emissions are excellent for audio. This means that data transmission does not translate into altering
EMI and/or powerline disturbances. This very likely changes the expected outcome of parameter
influences on sound quality relative to network gear which lacks this type of extreme security
hardening. There’s more that went into the design of the router which we cannot disclose to avoid
being prematurely copied.
Prematurely being before we hit break-even on our R&D costs which might be like a year away.
Disclosing this aspect of the design would take away most of the mystery surrounding the effects of
ethernet networking so I’d really like to share, but in the end, we do have a business to run and have
to keep netting positive. I hope you understand.
What is the optimal configuration when adding the Switch and the Router?
An RJ45 ethernet cable from the home router to the Extreme router and a DAC cable from the
Extreme router to the Extreme switch is optimal. Further improved performance can be obtained by
powering both the Extreme router and switch from a single DC power supply using the Taiko DC
POower distributor. Then there’s even more to be gained by using the upcoming battery supply
(BPS).
Is there any benefit in using SFP+ over SFP cable?
| General | Details |
|---|---|
| Name | Taiko TAP0016 Audio Extreme Router User Manual |
| Make | Taiko |
| Language | English |
| Filetype | PDF (Download) |
| File size | 0.95 MB |
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